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Re: miami pictures
Fabian JacobFabian Jacob 08 Feb 2010 11:49
in discussion LK / discussion » miami pictures

I'm still wondering about the fact that you came back to germany…:D

Nice shots, Andi!

Re: miami pictures by Fabian JacobFabian Jacob, 08 Feb 2010 11:49
Re: miami pictures
Nick WolffNick Wolff 07 Feb 2010 17:28
in discussion LK / discussion » miami pictures

Andi has truely been to Miami (Bitch)

really great pictures!

Re: miami pictures by Nick WolffNick Wolff, 07 Feb 2010 17:28
Oettinger speaking English by JannekeMJannekeM, 29 Jan 2010 16:13
Re: miami pictures
JannekeMJannekeM 29 Jan 2010 14:11
in discussion LK / discussion » miami pictures

Very nice, funny to see a crib with Maria and Joseph right between palmtrees and a beach :D

Re: miami pictures by JannekeMJannekeM, 29 Jan 2010 14:11
additional tasks
Monika ReyMonika Rey 28 Jan 2010 13:15
in discussion LK / discussion » additional tasks

Two of you can choose from the following two topics that we should discuss in class - you can assign for it instead of the review in the end:

  • Collect information about Aldous Huxley and give an interesting presentation in class.
  • Pick a chapter and write a text about Huxley's style of writing and the point of view and perspective he uses in his novel.
additional tasks by Monika ReyMonika Rey, 28 Jan 2010 13:15

those pictures really do make me jealous…!
looks like you had a blast over there in Florida! :) great!!

Re: miami pictures by Stefanie MuellerStefanie Mueller, 24 Jan 2010 18:14

Nice pictures, andi :-)
I especially like the christmas tree, so colorful and not exaggerating at all ;-)

Re: miami pictures by Alina SzymanowskiAlina Szymanowski, 20 Jan 2010 18:30
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miami pictures by Andi KirchgaessnerAndi Kirchgaessner, 19 Jan 2010 17:49

I've found a really interesting quotation by Henry Ford but I don't know where to put it on Wiki so I post it here (:

Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
Henry Ford

I think one can connect the quotation to Brave New World because only a very small minority in the novel "deals with this work" and the majority does not "engage in it". The big difference between us and the life in Brave New World is that we can choose if we want to engage in thinking about everything or not but in the novel, the majority actually is not even able to choose.

I like the quotation because it fits to the point that was already discussed in the other topic - the fact that people close their eyes to many topics to protect theirselves. The difference in Brave New World is that the mayority does not decide but is forced not to think or to question the system they live in.

Quotation Henry Ford by Noreen SchneiderNoreen Schneider, 20 Dec 2009 13:11

Welcome Fr. Rey and thank you, Anni, for this good idea.
I can agree to you both, but I think one should go a step further, by saying that a free mind is synonymous with identity. And the identity is influenced by the sleep teaching and conditioning. They are forced to like what they are (" I'm glad I'm not a gamma.") and in what castes they are into. They do not have the option to choose, for a Gamma, as well as for Deltas and Epsilons, identity means, that they belong to their respective castes, not that they are individuals - obviously, because they are clones.
Alphas and Betas do have an identity due to the fact that they are real individuals, but also conditioned on this caste system, that even has differences within the single parts, like "Alpha plus/minus". Their whole identity is based on this caste system, they can only identify theirselves by refering to it, because that's the only thing, that all of them do not have in common.

The decution is that a free mind is based on the caste system, but that is paradox, isn't it?
How can there be a free mind, if it is based on something that was created to control the citizens?

Good point, Ann-Cathrin,
pushing things to the back of one's mind is certainly a necessary skill to stay sane - but the general capability to decide which topics I want to reflect upon does belong to a free mind, doesn't it? Somebody who chooses for him- or herself what has to be changed (or kept the way it is) in order to live a meaningful life is completely different to somebody who just lives and is happy only because he/she lacks the ability/ is too dumb to notice alternatives or possibilities of change OR development. I think it is THE difference between human and animal life… (M.Rey)

Hello ;)
I just wanted to comment something, because Fabi said that if you are an epsilon or a gamma you are too dumb to even notice that you are dumb, which is a very interesting aspect.
Because in my opinion only the Alphas or Betas have a chance to maybe look a bit further and to recognize what is going on in their world, but maybe you are more happier when you don't know everything…
And I think we also do it like that, if something is to tough we try to block it out, which can be a protection for us. Eg. if one would know all the stuff that is happening in the whole world, every cruel thing, it would make him crazy and maybe it's good that we don't know everything because I think we couldn't handle it.

First of all, welcome Andreas. Nice to see you here. I'd like to comment on your point of view, because I think it's very interesting:

even more important aspect of our sense of life

I don't think that "the"/"our" sense of life does exist, due to the fact that this is something very personal. But you are right to say, that this is another great aspect. To support you a little more, life would be senseless without being happy. Somehow, happyness is the result of a fulfilled sense of life. If others have a different sense of life that is fulfilled, they are "happy", as well.

I would like to live as an alpha

Would your sense of life work out for you, although your are a "semi-moron" Gamma or even an Epsilon?
I mean you could be happy, because you are too dumb to recognize that you are dumb or unhappy, but only acting out someone's orders all the time cannot be correct, can it? As a conclusion of that, would life be senseless for the Gammas, Deltas or Epsilons?

In my opinion the only people that reap the benefits from this system are the world leaders like Mustafa Mond, who's having 1/10 of the world's power. They can do what they want to do, without caring about the possible consequences, because everybody is conditioned to like the system and not able to criticize the world leaders.

just to have money to buy things which satisfy us or make us happy if the success is not satisfaction enough

You are talking about the possibility to satisfy us by buying something to be satisfied/happy, if the success if not enough.
What about Helmholzt Watson? He's having the exact problem, that you described. His only stigma is to be too perfect but he is not satisfied, because there is nothing to reach, nothing to aim for anymore.
As I said before, one cannot talk about the sense of life, but about the basics to have a sense of life and of course having aims or something ahead, like Alina and Steffi already explained, are basics, otherwise life would be vegetating or even stagnation instead of having development or evolution, because there would be no need of it.

I agree with all your opinions about the sense of life is evolution and so on bla bla, but an even more important aspect of our sense of life is that we feel satisfied and happy! Yes, we want to have our abitur, we want to have a good job, we want to be successful, just to have money to buy things which satisfy us or make us happy if the success is not satisfaction enough. There does exist a parable of the fisher which shows exactly what I mean. So I think the New World isn't that wrong and the main ideas aren't that cruel…(I would like to live as an alpha ^^) But like steffi said before, if there is only one mistake ( bernard ) the whole system falls. So what we learn from "Brave New World": If you do something, then do it right! ;D

if they knew, the society would immediately break down.

Lets have a logical experiment:
Would you mind that you never went fishing, if you just did not hear a word about fishing?
I don't think you would.
If we look at the "brave new world"-time, it seems unbelievable for us to live like that, because we like the way we live today.
Wouldn't it make sense if the "brave new world"-people think so, too? Wouldn't they say that we are dumb, because we live in such a mess and shapelessness?
Lets go back to our fishing example:
If you get to know, what fishing is all about somehow, would you go fishing? Imagine that you know, that you put the worm on the hook and that you kill poor fishes ;).
Do you agree if I say that you never go fishing, because you think that this will be a big animal cruelty?
Transport this to the people in the brave new world. Why should they want to live like we do, with all our emotional chaos and differences? I think it could be possible that this is the same horror for them as it is for you, if you go fishing.

Nevertheless I agree with you, Steffi. You are right to say that they only live for their work and to like themselves so that the system's stability won't fail.

Thank you you two (Alina and Fabi) for discussion so much on here ;)
To add a little to your thoughts, I would totally agree with Alina, because people nowadays have to live for a goal. We all need to go for something (like right now it would be at least our Abitur, i guess ;) ) and later on we all want to have a great job, nice family and just enjoy life and the good sides of it. That's what makes us actual human beings. We love and we live to the fullest.
In comparison to that, in "Brave New World" people are created not to like all this kind of stuff. That is why they are have the electrical shock system for babies to teach them what to like and dislike. Also, sleep-teaching gives people the best prejudices one can have in life (as we all can see in Lenina). That is why people are not supposed to get distracted form work. They all have an aim as well, but it's always the same one, always just to work for a good system. If just one person does not work correctly, the whole system breaks down and that's what the creators want to provide.
So as we all can see, the people in "Brave New World" are usually not lonely or not satisfied. It does not matter if someone is an Alpha or an Epsilon, the people are just created to like themselves the way they are, otherwise the whole society would not work anymore.
So I do think that the sense of life is totally different in "our future", but the people would not recognize the difference, since they don't know any better and if they knew, the society would immediately break down.

by the way: sense is written with a "s", not a "c" ;-)

Thank you, Alina, you will find it correct now;).

But don't you think, that there is a difference between Darwin's theory and the life in "brave new world"?

I do think so. (It is explained one post below.)

Darwin explained the phenomenon of the sexual selection as a choice of the animal/human. I don't think that is how the people in "brave new world" are created.

Hm, I'm sorry if you missunderstood me, Alina. That was exactly what I meant. Due to the fact that the people are artificially fertilized and mother/fatherhoods are forbidden, this aspect of evolution cannot work out the way it should do. A system that is based on stability has no room for such variability that is caused by evolution, and what is making us to individuals today.

They don't have influence on what kind of people are born or which character trades are passed on to the next generation.

You are absolutely right. They (the people) are only cloned/artificially fertilized. This is why "my" sense of life cannot work out for me in this "brave new world"-time.

We all agreed, that human beings are not supposed to be perfect. We all need a goal to work for, something to develop for and to have ahead of us.

Am I right to say that your sense of life is evolution, too?

First of all, thank you Fabi, for putting up this new platform in the forum!
I think you did a great job by explaining the sense of life in "brave new world" (by the way: sense is written with a "s", not a "c" ;-)).
Your text also shows that you are an expert for biologie as well. But don't you think, that there is a difference between Darwin's theory and the life in "brave new world"? Darwin explained the phenomenon of the sexual selection as a choice of the animal/human. I don't think that is how the people in "brave new world" are created. They don't have influence on what kind of people are born or which character trades are passed on to the next generation.
As we have already discussed in class today, that is the complete wrong way. We all agreed, that human beings are not supposed to be perfect. We all need a goal to work for, something to develop for and to have ahead of us. Otherwise we would be bored and become depressed sooner or later. (Alina)

Here you can ask every question that you want to ask, depending on the novel "Brave New World". And of course you can feel free to answer other questions, as well.
It would be a good idea to write your name behind your question in order to be able to talk about it in school or in the break for example.

To have a start, I am going to present my sense of life to you, as well as the differences I see, when I think about the "brave new world".

The sense for me in life is evolution in the narrow sence of Darwin. This is as easy as it sounds - and easy things are good.
The "survival of the fittest"-principle contains the aspect of random mutation, and, as a conclusion of that, an advantage or disadvantage opposite to other living things. Good mutations will stay alive, but bad ones will die out.
The result is, that these changes lead to a better adaption to the world around one, and one will be able to manage life better.
So the sence is to develop and to pass on genetic material.

If I try to transport all these aspects to the brave new world, the result will be a total failure.
How can a living thing, especially a human being develop, if the evolution is controlled by ten masterminds, that try to keep stability instead of variability?
Due to that fact, the sense of life turned in the "brave new world". The sense is to keep the system alive, these evolution/development aspects are completely whiped out and the appearance and lifestyle of the "individuals" are given by the system.

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